Author Topic: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general  (Read 81721 times)

Big Fingers McGee

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 10:03:40 AM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

radical347

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 10:11:48 AM »
While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Same here, I'd be glad to help out in any way.

Lightnin' Rod

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 02:21:57 PM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Well, copying and pasting into a spreadsheet isn't all that difficult -- it's just tedious.

If we come up with a column list and order (like - dateofshow, year, song, artist, special), then different folks can work on different periods and then we can have a big combining party to bring all the data together.  Of course, specialty sets are a problem, but we can figure and algorithm for that...
and any fool knows
a dog needs a home
a shelter
from pigs on the wing

Big Fingers McGee

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 03:19:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Well, copying and pasting into a spreadsheet isn't all that difficult -- it's just tedious.

If we come up with a column list and order (like - dateofshow, year, song, artist, special), then different folks can work on different periods and then we can have a big combining party to bring all the data together.  Of course, specialty sets are a problem, but we can figure and algorithm for that...

That would be one method. We could also pick periods of time when the show aired (i.e. one person could input shows that aired 1/1/2011 through 6/30/2011).

This is starting to sound a bit like an actual work project.

RGMike

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2013, 03:54:10 PM »
This is starting to sound a bit like an actual work project.

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ggould

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 10:41:22 PM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Well, copying and pasting into a spreadsheet isn't all that difficult -- it's just tedious.

If we come up with a column list and order (like - dateofshow, year, song, artist, special), then different folks can work on different periods and then we can have a big combining party to bring all the data together.  Of course, specialty sets are a problem, but we can figure and algorithm for that...

That would be one method. We could also pick periods of time when the show aired (i.e. one person could input shows that aired 1/1/2011 through 6/30/2011).

This is starting to sound a bit like an actual work project.
if someone can update the database, let me know, and I'll put it on the server. 

oh, by the way, the rent is due again!
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dischead

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 11:33:36 PM »
Whoa!  Everybody slow down... I guess I need more explication.

I have a copy of the Shraytabase.  I've also found Darryl's web site and have downloaded
some of his earlier files.  Those two resources have helped me fill in a lot of the gaps I had
in early 2002, and eventually I hope they will aid me in resolving inconsistancies in my 2003
file.

I have been copying the set lists off the KFOG web site since 2002, which I believe is when
they started getting posted regularly there.  It's a simple copy & paste operation.  I keep them
in text files, one for each year.  This makes them easy to search with simple command-line
utilities (i.e., grep).  In the RR era the format of the set header line changed and the set listing
order was inverted to chronological from reverse chronological.  More recently, the song lines got
reversed as well.  Previously they were "artist - title", and now they're "title - artist".  I griped
about this earlier, because I change it all before adding new set lists to my files in order to
maintain a format consistent with how it was done in previous years.  This is all with an eye
toward eventually reading them into a database.

The Shraytabase is a spreadsheet, and I don't want to get into my "spreadsheets aren't
databases" rant here.  But as a demonstration of that, perhaps someone would care to explain
how they would determine the artist who has won BOS the most, or the most played song from
1968, using the Shraytabase.  I'm guessing it would take a fair amount of tricky Excel formula
manipulations to produce those answers.  In contrast, if all the set lists were in a structured
database, I'm presuming that a fairly straightforward query statement is all that would be needed,
and the database program would do the rest.

Even with a database there are other hurdles.  I correct spelling errors when I notice them, and
I've been slowly fixing other small formatting inconsistencies in my files.  But as just one example,
Chicago, Chicago Transit Authority, CTA, and C.T.A. all appear with Questions 67 & 68.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 11:51:09 PM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Well, copying and pasting into a spreadsheet isn't all that difficult -- it's just tedious.

If we come up with a column list and order (like - dateofshow, year, song, artist, special), then different folks can work on different periods and then we can have a big combining party to bring all the data together.  Of course, specialty sets are a problem, but we can figure and algorithm for that...

Oh no, you don't want to do it that way.

I copied select portions of the Shraytabase to another worksheet in Excel, and exported it to
a CSV file.  Then I wrote a quick & dirty BASIC program to convert that into a text file with
the usual set list format.  (I even used Zeller's congruence to get the day of the week in the
set header line.)

So rather than laboriously re-type everything, it would be far easier to reverse that process
by writing another cheap little program to take set lists and write them as a CSV file, importing
that file into Excel, and finally copy & pasting the new cells at the bottom of the existing entries.

However that is a project that I cannot undertake in the near term.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

Big Fingers McGee

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2013, 05:40:59 AM »
But as a demonstration of that, perhaps someone would care to explain
how they would determine the artist who has won BOS the most, or the most played song from
1968, using the Shraytabase.  I'm guessing it would take a fair amount of tricky Excel formula
manipulations to produce those answers.


My best friend formula in Excel is named "Concatenate". It can work wonders.

Lightnin' Rod

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2013, 09:53:56 AM »
I'm pretty sure that all of the Annalisa (& Renee) era sets are here on the boards.  I've just been doing searches to find out which songs have been played before.

Didn't the Shrayatabase used to be on the front page?  I can't find it anymore.  I have a copy on my home computer though that I can upload if it's no longer found here.

There's a link on Stream of Consciousness that reads "The infamous Shraytabase", which if you click, will allow you to download the Excel file. Most recent entry: 11/21/2008.

While my DBA skills may not be up to par, compiling such a list should be a labor of love anyway, and I'm willing to input portions if the need arises.

Well, copying and pasting into a spreadsheet isn't all that difficult -- it's just tedious.

If we come up with a column list and order (like - dateofshow, year, song, artist, special), then different folks can work on different periods and then we can have a big combining party to bring all the data together.  Of course, specialty sets are a problem, but we can figure and algorithm for that...

Oh no, you don't want to do it that way.

I copied select portions of the Shraytabase to another worksheet in Excel, and exported it to
a CSV file.  Then I wrote a quick & dirty BASIC program to convert that into a text file with
the usual set list format.  (I even used Zeller's congruence to get the day of the week in the
set header line.)

So rather than laboriously re-type everything, it would be far easier to reverse that process
by writing another cheap little program to take set lists and write them as a CSV file, importing
that file into Excel, and finally copy & pasting the new cells at the bottom of the existing entries.

However that is a project that I cannot undertake in the near term.

Sure, there are easier ways to get the data into a spreadsheet, or directly into a database (MySQL, for example).  A web page, perhaps, with a text box where you paste in a set, click Go, and then it parses the text into some tables.  There'd be some fuzzy parsing logic around inconsistencies in how the text was formatted, but it wouldn't be that difficult.  Then a reporting page, to access the db and do queries.  Hijack some more of Geoff's bandwidth, and everyone could play.

But also not a project I can undertake in the near term.
and any fool knows
a dog needs a home
a shelter
from pigs on the wing

Lightnin' Rod

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2013, 10:16:36 AM »
Whoa!  Everybody slow down... I guess I need more explication.

I have a copy of the Shraytabase.  I've also found Darryl's web site and have downloaded
some of his earlier files.  Those two resources have helped me fill in a lot of the gaps I had
in early 2002, and eventually I hope they will aid me in resolving inconsistancies in my 2003
file.

I have been copying the set lists off the KFOG web site since 2002, which I believe is when
they started getting posted regularly there.  It's a simple copy & paste operation.  I keep them
in text files, one for each year.  This makes them easy to search with simple command-line
utilities (i.e., grep).  In the RR era the format of the set header line changed and the set listing
order was inverted to chronological from reverse chronological.  More recently, the song lines got
reversed as well.  Previously they were "artist - title", and now they're "title - artist".  I griped
about this earlier, because I change it all before adding new set lists to my files in order to
maintain a format consistent with how it was done in previous years.  This is all with an eye
toward eventually reading them into a database.

The Shraytabase is a spreadsheet, and I don't want to get into my "spreadsheets aren't
databases" rant here.  But as a demonstration of that, perhaps someone would care to explain
how they would determine the artist who has won BOS the most, or the most played song from
1968, using the Shraytabase.  I'm guessing it would take a fair amount of tricky Excel formula
manipulations to produce those answers.  In contrast, if all the set lists were in a structured
database, I'm presuming that a fairly straightforward query statement is all that would be needed,
and the database program would do the rest.

Even with a database there are other hurdles.  I correct spelling errors when I notice them, and
I've been slowly fixing other small formatting inconsistencies in my files.  But as just one example,
Chicago, Chicago Transit Authority, CTA, and C.T.A. all appear with Questions 67 & 68.

Oh, if you have a bunch of text files, I can load them into a db -- that's easy.  I should have read this before replying to the other post.

And no, spreadsheets are not databases.  But they are handy and portable.  I get lots of stuff from clients in spreadsheet form, and I often write a formulas in cells to generate sql inserts and updates...
and any fool knows
a dog needs a home
a shelter
from pigs on the wing

Tinka Cat

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2013, 10:31:30 AM »

 db


cool!

would this db be installed here in the SMF forum?  perhaps pwd-protected so that only reg'd users could run queries?  or would/could it live elsewhere?
~CPL593H~

ggould

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2013, 10:11:25 PM »

 db


cool!

would this db be installed here in the SMF forum?  perhaps pwd-protected so that only reg'd users could run queries?  or would/could it live elsewhere?
Since we have Rod as a co-administrator, and he knows what he's doing (as opposed to me!) I think it would be great if we could do that.  We need to clean up some old SQL shit first though.
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dischead

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2013, 11:05:16 PM »
And no, spreadsheets are not databases.  But they are handy and portable.  I get lots of stuff from clients in spreadsheet form, and I often write a formulas in cells to generate sql inserts and updates...

I have no problem with spreadsheets per se.  I realize many people use them as databases
because they know no other way, and that may work within limits.  I do not think that a
spreadsheet is the correct tool for a data set with over 3,000 records (set lists), each with more
than twenty elements, that one wants to use with complicated queries.  I would rather search
my text files than search a large spreadsheet.

This is just a subsection of a larger rant, "what is considered computer literacy has been shrinking
over time"...
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

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Re: 10@10 - Discussion of KFOG's show in general
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2013, 10:34:26 PM »
Oh, if you have a bunch of text files, I can load them into a db -- that's easy.  I should have read this before replying to the other post.

I tried to reply to your PM, and got the following error:

Unable to find member 'lightnin' rod'.

"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"