Author Topic: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975  (Read 26970 times)

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2013, 06:29:37 AM »
I like Bruce.  But I certainly don't romanticize Jersey.  From what I've seen on TV, it's pretty much a hell hole.  I love to travel, and will literally go anywhere with a carefree heart, but Jersey is pretty much last on my list.  Behind, like, I don't know, Kansas.  Or Somalia.

Oh great.  Now you've put me in the awkward position of defending New Jersey.  By TV, I assume
you're refering to the shows about genteel spouses and those well-mannered kids living in a
house by the beach.  Because naturally the producers of said shows are primarily interested
in accurately depicting the citizens of New Jersey, and the people on those programs know they're
on television and represent the state, so they're on their best behavior.  I've never seen a
moment of either one of them, so I'm just speculating here.  New Jersey residents have a
well-deserved reputation for having a lot of attitude, but that can be said about much of the
greater NYC area.  On the whole I don't think the people there are much better or worse than
elsewhere in the US.

Most people only see New Jersey because they're driving through it on the Turnpike to go
somewhere else.  Which is a little like saying you've seen the Bay Area by driving around it on
880 and 101.  It is the most densely populated state, and the swath from Philadelphia to
New York is largely a mix of suburban and urban areas.  There are problem cities like Trenton,
but I don't see them as much different from Richmond or Vacaville.  Off of that strip to the North
are the Appalachian Mountains and many rural communities, which are pretty much the same as
most other rural areas in the Mid-Atlantic Region.  To the South it is essentially a huge sandy
penninsula, dominated by the Pine Barrens, and much of it remains relatively undeveloped.

There's naturally a lot of history associated with New Jersey, but if you're not interested in that
then there isn't much to differentiate it from other East Coast locations.  There are lots of nice
beach areas, but Long Island, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia also have nice beaches.  And
Atlantic City is no longer the only alternative for gambling outside of Nevada.  So without a specific
reason, you might just as well visit Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Maryland, etc.  But I think that's true
of most states outside of the West.  Very few of them have unique, "must see" attractions apart
from historical sites.

He may be a lucky punk from Jersey, but he puts on a hell of a show, and his songs resonate.  I refused to pay $114 for far away seats last time he was in town, but would have paid that for a closer experience. 

I think he rose above those other Jersey punks with talent and conviction.  You may not agree, but he doesn't seem to be as Jersey as the media is portraying Jersey these days.

My point is that most of his songs don't resonate with me, because they're pitched at a blue-collar
sensibility.  I don't find anything particularly interesting about his music; it's middle-of-the-road rock
and roll, albeit well executed and well presented.  Yes, he's talented and determined, and that is a
big part of his success.  My opinion is that the fan reaction is out of proportion with the music
quality.  (But what do I know?  I count myself amount the ranks of Deadheads.)  He most
certainly is associated with and considered representative of New Jersey.  As for the media
portrayals you allude to, they are essentially cartoons, and are about as accurate as saying a walk
down Haight Street near Ashbury is what San Francisco is all about.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2013, 06:31:05 AM »
I'd put Neil Young at the top of that list.

Oh, now you done it!  Or, idiomatically, "NO YOU DIN'T!"

I mean, he's as serious an artist as I know in the rock and roll arena.  Not always great (some things fail), but always out there, pushing towards what he wants to be.  It is "art" to him.

Oh, he may be serious, and it may be "art" to him, but that doesn't mean what he's doing is any good.
I don't see him pushing towards anything new.  It's the same old same old to my ears.  And frankly,
it seems like he works a little too hard, like he's grinding it out.  "See how hard I'm working?  See
how earnest I am?"  I wouldn't say that he isn't having fun, but I don't sense that in his performance.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2013, 06:32:35 AM »
Next up -- musicians who I think don't deserve the opprobrium they get on this board!
I am on the edge of my seat waiting for your defense of The Cars.

Myself, I defend Tom Petty.  But that is just me.

The Cars aren't who I was thinking of.  But I don't find them offensive.  They were early harbingers
of the New Wave, and they had a fun, light pop sound.  I think the problem is they are over-played,
both in their time and on 10@10.  If anything, that's because the late '70s generally sucked overall
for pop/rock.  The interesting stuff at that time was happening elsewhere.

Petty is somewhat like Bruce for me.  Some songs I really enjoy.  Some I never need to hear again.
I would grant that Bruce et. al. is more talented than Petty.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2013, 06:36:35 AM »
Springsteen and U2 are the most overrated acts in rock history. That said, both are good, and I like both of them.

I don't know that they're the most overrated (and I do really like U2), but I get your general point.

I guess the term overrated can mean many things, including but not limited to:

1) Overly rabid fanbase (your two examples)

Can there be any more rabid fanbase than those for the Dead?  I own just about all of their albums
(including solo efforts), have been to about fifty shows, and have 100+ concert recordings -- which
barely makes me a middle-weight deadhead.  Does that make them overrated?  Outside of their fans,
they are generally regarded as a bunch of stoned noodlers.

2) Given way too much ink by the press (Radiohead immediately comes to mind).

I would think the acts that are given too much ink are ones that don't even get played on 10@10 and
are rarely, if ever, mentioned here.  The cookie-cutter boy bands, the singers (girls, mostly) who
are known more for the escapades that get them on TMZ than their music.  In those cases I would say,
yes, definitely overrated.

I would add:

3) Given credit for being better musicians they they really are, or mistaking popularity for musical
ability.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2013, 06:38:29 AM »
Taste is funny. I LOVE Neil and Radiohead. LOVE. Then again, Dischead said the last thirty or so years of Neil, and I will agree that his Decade was the most glorious of his career. So, yeah, maybe post-Seventies Neil is overrated, but I'll always give him a pass. He's up there with Dylan and Lennon for me.

I see a pattern, though. If one has a distaste for art rock, then Neil, maybe Bowie, and especially Radiohead are going to seem overrated. If one's distaste is more for mainstream rock, then U2, Bruce, Petty (sorry), and C[l][r]apton are going to seem overrated.


Your feelings about Neil mirror mine about Eric Clapton, who is one of the artists I think gets
unnecessarily dumped on here.  Yes, I'll admit that his work in the last two or three decades isn't
stellar.  But in my opinion, he's largely responsible for the top two rock & roll albums of all time:
Cream's Wheels of Fire and Blind Faith.  And for that, he gets a pass from me.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2013, 06:40:02 AM »
just sayin'...

Just because someone is really popular is no proof they are overrated.

Just because someone is bravely willing to take an unpopular opinion, that doesn't mean it's any more valid than a popular opinion.

De gustibus non est disputandum.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2013, 06:43:43 AM »
I disagree strongly with much of it, but am getting tired of being an old fart.  More importantly, I felt like discussing the logical pitfalls of music criticism.

I think it's important to recognize good musical ability, even if one doesn't care for it.  As I've said
before, Bruce and company are good musicians -- I just don't think they're good enough to warrant
the veneration.  Part of problem is that I regard rock as a limited form of music.  There's only so
much you can do with it by itself.  That's why I find myself more interested these days in other
kinds of music apart from straight-up rock.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"

ggould

  • Administrator
  • Master Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 9160
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ggould.com
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2013, 09:36:13 AM »
just sayin'...

Just because someone is really popular is no proof they are overrated.

Just because someone is bravely willing to take an unpopular opinion, that doesn't mean it's any more valid than a popular opinion.

De gustibus non est disputandum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_gustibus_non_est_disputandum

 ;)
Don't stand in the way of LOVE!

RGMike

  • The Core
  • Eight Miles High
  • *****
  • Posts: 79473
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2013, 09:50:12 AM »
I disagree strongly with much of it, but am getting tired of being an old fart.  More importantly, I felt like discussing the logical pitfalls of music criticism.

I think it's important to recognize good musical ability, even if one doesn't care for it.  As I've said
before, Bruce and company are good musicians -- I just don't think they're good enough to warrant
the veneration.  Part of problem is that I regard rock as a limited form of music.  There's only so
much you can do with it by itself.  That's why I find myself more interested these days in other
kinds of music apart from straight-up rock.

I'm a big longtime Brooooce fan but the thing is, critics, particularly if they came out of the tradition of early Rolling Stone/Crawdaddy/Village Voice politically-aware music criticism, tend to venerate anyone with a blue-collar background.  And if the artist puts on 3-hour-plus shows every night, and pays homage to early rock and R&B, and gets more political as he ages... well, you can see how that all fits together. Springsteen buddy/hagiographer Dave Marsh (who I CANNOT F**ING STAND) pretty much hates/nit-picks any rock star who went to college (your David Byrnes, your Paul Simons).
You spin me right 'round, baby, right 'round

dischead

  • The Core
  • kiloposter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Honorary Knight of the Command Line
    • View Profile
Re: 11 April 2013: it's... 1975
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2013, 10:22:16 PM »
just sayin'...
Just because someone is really popular is no proof they are overrated.
Just because someone is bravely willing to take an unpopular opinion, that doesn't mean it's any more valid than a popular opinion.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_gustibus_non_est_disputandum
 ;)

The education system in this country started going to hell when they stopped teaching Latin
in the schools.

I attended a private high school and had two years of Latin.  I could have elected to take one
or two more years.  Maybe if I had then I would understand the ablative case today.
"Your favorite songs, played beautifully"